I have got pretty consistent MOA accuracy with the Remington 33-gr. Accutip-V load in this rifle:

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5272120&postcount=86

Mind you, it was chambered specifically for this load years ago in a custom barrel. I haven't tried the Hornady 30-gr. V-Max load.

 

My brothers CZ 452 American shoots the Hornady rounds right at 1'' at 100 yards . The Remington is close behind . Amazing to me for a 22 magnum . I have never owned a magnum that came close to his groups . Good match of ammo and barrel lottery .

 

Those are the two best shooting across the board .22wmr loads I've used, if the rifle won't shoot with them, check the rifle....

 

That's about normal for the majority of WMR in my opinion.
I've had a couple and have a couple of friends who have them.
My current 93FVSS, which has been tweaked to the point that my $300 gun now is worth about $1400 is the best of the bunch.
I have no problem getting one or two sub 1" groups at 100m (with the Hornady, which is its favorite) in a session.
Thing is there will also be one or two 2" groups as well with the majority sitting around 1.5".
My buddy with the same gun in .17HMR sits there and shoots slightly under an inch groups one after the other.

 

From what you reported seems your rifle likes a fouled barrel. I wouldn't clean it any more unless accuracy fell off. Come to think of it, I don't ever remember cleaning the barrel of any of our 22 mags.

 

I have experienced the unexplainable flyer more in the 22 Mag than any other caliber. In my opinion, you are doing your testing correctly. 10 five shot groups lets you know exactly what to expect. I beleive the QC on the 22 Mag ammo allows the occasional flyer. When someone claims a sub moa 22 Mag, they are DEFINITELY not taking the average of 10 five shot groups, they are probably picking the best one or two groups they have ever shot.

I have done exhaustive testing of my Anschutz 22 Mag with at least 10 different main stream ammo types. The best accuracy is from the Remington 33 grain, the Hornady Vmax was only average. There were unexplained flyers from all ammo types. Although there has been only 1 unexplained flyer from the Remington 33 grain. That round when fired gave a very stiff bolt lift and the round was 2" outside the group at 100 yards. This was out of 100 rounds of testing with that ammo.

So I dont think it is possible to fire 10 five shot groups 2 times in a row (100 rounds) without having at least 1 unexplained flyer, and probably much more depending on the ammo type.

 

I have experienced the unexplainable flyer more in the 22 Mag than any other caliber. In my opinion, you are doing your testing correctly. 10 five shot groups lets you know exactly what to expect. I beleive the QC on the 22 Mag ammo allows the occasional flyer. When someone claims a sub moa 22 Mag, they are DEFINITELY not taking the average of 10 five shot groups, they are probably picking the best one or two groups they have ever shot.

You are absolutely right that one group, or even two or three, averaging a certain size does not establish the accuracy potential of that load with that rifle. And I agree that many reports of "MOA," "covered by a dime," etc., are nothing more than the best group shot with the rifle. Some folks think that a gun should be understood to be as accurate as its best group, under the assumption that, if it shot a group this small once, it is capable of that in general. However, any rifle will turn in the occasional eye-popping group. With that group, conditions were optimal, your wiggles coincided with the guns wobbles for 5 shots, and all five went into 1.0".

Averages of several groups are essential to determine a rifle's accuracy understood to be with that particular ammo on that day with all conditions that existed that day, and with your bench technique what it was that day. The mean of 10 5-shot groups is pretty definitive. The testing staff of the NRA's American Rifleman used to report the average of 5 consecutive 5-shot groups (mainly tests of rifles with factory ammunition), and I might settle for 5-8 groups being used in the average, with all groups shot being included in the average (i.e., no cherry-picking the best groups out of a larger number).

Having said that, my custom Kimber M82 (link in Post #2 in this thread), with custom medium-heavy barrel (chambered specifically for the Remington 33-gr. Accutip-V load), reworked trigger (tuned down to about 6 oz.), and pillar-bedding did produce legitimate MOA (or slightly less) groups (based on an average of many groups) with that load. I haven't shot it in many years, and am now in the middle of a new 22 WMR project with an Anschutz M54 action, Jewell trigger (which will take a fair bit of gunsmithing to install), and match-grade Lilja barrel, all pillar-bedded into an exhibition-grade English walnut stock. The gunsmith has all the components at this point except for the barrel (which should be arriving soon), and I expect this rifle to produce true, averaged MOA groups too. It too will be chambered specifically for the Remington 33-gr. load.

 

I wish more people understood this South Pender.
Yesterday was a perfect example.
Six, 5 shot groups at 100m (where I was 'really trying').
One a little under an inch...four between 1.25 and 1.5" and one about a hair over 2".
I know too many people who would be crowing that they consider themselves (and their gun) to be 1" shooters.
I figure I've got a 1.5" gun, and am completely happy with that.
Ecstatic with the 1" group.
Tearing my hair out at the 2" group

 

I wish more people understood this South Pender.
Yesterday was a perfect example.
Six, 5 shot groups at 100m (where I was 'really trying').
One a little under an inch...four between 1.25 and 1.5" and one about a hair over 2".
I know too many people who would be crowing that they consider themselves (and their gun) to be 1" shooters.
I figure I've got a 1.5" gun, and am completely happy with that.
Ecstatic with the 1" group.
Tearing my hair out at the 2" group

You guys cite info. that mirrors my unofficial tests. My first .22 mag was a Marlin 25MN Ducks Unlimited version that averaged about 1.5-1.75" five shot groups at 100 yards. I thought it was a poor shooting rifle, even though it handled well and looked decent, so I traded it off. The next .22 mag shot about the same; and the next one about the same . . . 1.5" groups to be expected w maybe three rounds pretty tight and one or two out of the group. Rem 33 gr. always shot the best followed, believe it or not, by W-W Super X 40 gr. JHP. I had some rifles that really liked the lighter weight 34 gr. Winchesters (if they didn't ftf) but most of my rifles have not been particularly found of The 30 gr. Hornady. I've been pleasantly surprised by the 50 gr. Fed Game-shok in terms of consistent accuracy but they don't shoot to the same POA and, of course, are slower getting downrange. That being said, I have not owned a CZ 452 in .22 mag . . . something I'd like to remedy.

 

What an informative thread, appreciate the knowledge and the honesty here.......

 

22 mag v- max

I have had good results with the v-max ammo, Same with the Remington premier, but it is much harder to find. The V-max is/was easier to find. I have exactly one sub moa group with the 22mag. Many ammo types shoot well enough for 100 yard G-hogs shots. It is not as accurate as the the 22lr, from my 10-22 but it is bigger stick! This year i have killed five and none of them were able to run off or go back down the hole. But that has more to do with shot selection/ placement then the 22 mag itself. No doubt a bigger hammer!

 

MN22lrFan,

I'd love to see your 547! Can you point me to a thread that has pics of it or post one here? I regret passing up a 40x made into a .22WMR years ago.

The .22WMR ammo with the most consistent accuracy I have every shot has been a couple of old lots of Winchester 34gr Supremes. The majority of my WMR's have shot it better than other ammos I've tried. My Marlins all preferred 40gr JHP's. The next best has been Remington 33gr's and Hornady 30gr VMax's, followed just a little by a newer lot of Winchester 34gr Supremes from a few years back. I don't do 10 groups of 5 though. I only do 5 groups of 5 when selecting ammo for my WMR's, usually with a 36x scope, and then switch to a hunting scope.

My most accurate WMR Rifles right now are my Biathlon Basic and my 77/17 with octagon GM WMR barrel. The BB has shot almost everything I fed it well. So far, at 50, the Ruger has out shot the Annie 1720 DHB I used to have...I forget what ammo the Annie liked (I think the Rem. 33's), but it shot consistently around an inch with occassional groups closer to .5 at a 100yds...it would shoot right along with my Cooper .17hmr, but could not keep up with my Annie 1717HB. But, it's early and I've only shot the Ruger at 50yds, so much too early to say anything for sure. It was shooting the old lot Supremes in the .2 and .3's when I was shooting it, with one group just over .5 that had a flyer low and left...I am thrilled with the Ruger, pretty and accurate enough for my purposes.

My next most accurate WMR is a CZ512 right now. It's the most fun one I have too. It's shooting old lot Win. Supremes at .5-.6 at 50, and newer lot Supremes in .6's to sub-.8's at 50yds. At 100, it shoots groups in the 1-1.5" range with old lot Supremes and occasional sub-1". I haven't tried the Hornady 30gr's yet, but look forward to trying them in the CZ.

My 9422M gives the CZ a run for its money, but the Winchester is harder to hold steady from a bench with the skinny forearm. Years ago I mounted an 8-32x scope on it and, with old lot Supremes got occassional .75" at 75yds and almost as good with old lot Win. 40grJHP's, but the JHP's had more flyers. The accuracy potential is there, but I just can't hold it as consistently as I can the other rifles.

I'm a hunter not a target shooter, so I don't know a lot about the details of the ammo, etc.

 

Mn22LRFan, that is not bad shooting at all in my opinion. And I tend to agree with those having the opinion that an occasional flyer is going to occur with this type of ammo. After all, it is not match grade ammo. If you test various types of long rifle ammo that is not match grade ammo in an accurate rifle, you will find a certain percentage of cartridges that do not perform in a satisfactory fashion. Why should .22 WMR be an different? I have a number of .22 LR guns that will easily do sub MOA groups if I use good quality match ammo. Take that away and restrict me to shooting non- match grade ammo, and I would be mostly getting the kind of groups that a lot of WMR shooters report. I personally don't think the WMR is less accurate than the .22 LR.....in my mind, the difference is mostly in the quality of ammo available. But of course, this is just my opinions, and I could be wrong.

That said, there are some WMR guns out there that will do the sub-MOA average...whether at fifty or at 100 yards. I am fortunate enough to have happened onto one. A few years ago, I ordered a CZ WMR Lux in WMR From Buds. From the get go, I could see the gun was going to be quiet accurate. At some point, I gathered up all my five shot group fifty yard targets.....and averaged the group sizes. This was well in excess of thirty groups at that point and included the good and the bad - no group was excluded. It also included groups shot by my son and grand daughter. The average was .410". I also averaged all my 100 yard groups and that came to somewhere around .850". Mostly, I was shooting CCI Maximags solid and hollow points, with some Remington V-Max as well as Hornady. Surprisingly, the CCI shoots as well as anything for me. The Hornady and Remington shot well, but is a good bit more expensive than the CCI.

Not saying all WMR guns should shoot this well.....just saying there are some that do.

 

Tatally agree Pump 22.
I would love to see someone (Hornady or RWS??) bring out a true match grade WMR round.
Take away the fliers and I think this could easily be sub 1moa calibre.

 

Yes, that would be nice.

But I am very doubtful we will ever see any. I shoot at my club's rimfire bench matches......WMR and HMR guns are prohibited - as it is in most rimfire competition that I am familiar with. There just aren't enough incentives for the ammo makers to even think of developing and manufacturing a match grade WMR round. And if they did make it, I don't even want to think about what the price would be.

 

Images

Macc -
here are images of my 547C 22 mag with Custom Shop upgrades, #702. I would like to try the 34 gr Win Supremes but never have seen any on the shelf or for sale. RWS makes 22 mag loads for the home market that have a good reputation. But asked Steve B. at ANA to try to find some, no interest as a box would probably retail around $30 now. And that isn't 'match' quality yet.
http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219359&page=47

 

Macc -
here are images of my 547C 22 mag with Custom Shop upgrades, #702. I would like to try the 34 gr Win Supremes but never have seen any on the shelf or for sale. RWS makes 22 mag loads for the home market that have a good reputation. But asked Steve B. at ANA to try to find some, no interest as a box would probably retail around $30 now. And that isn't 'match' quality yet.
http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219359&page=47

WOW!! Absolutely gorgeous rifle you have there! The closest I'll ever have to one of Remington's custom shop sporters is a 541THB that Brian Voelker worked over and I added a Richards seconds stock to.

I don't know if it's true of the Win. Supremes, but I've read on here Winchester quality isn't what it used to be. I can attest to that with some PowerPoints in .22lr I got awhile back.

I'm not sure what truly match quality .22WMR ammo would cost, but I'd bet A LOT. I have a case of Tenex that I got for $500 from the gentleman that sold me his full custom 40x before the price of ammo took off. I don't do a lot of target shooting, so that'll probably last me quite awhile.

 

wmr

wmr is very hard to find here . I find the cci 30 gr v-max shoots pretty close to what the Remington Premiere ammo is printing on target thru my kimber 82 wmr. Remington premiere 22wmr is close to 20 dollars a box when you can find it. OUCH!

 

I'm in Canada...so we have to take the difference in currency into account.
But...
Four months ago Remington .33 gr Accutip was $18/50.
Last week it was (in every shop in town) $30/50.
For the first time I though reloading .223 is starting to become very attractive.

 

My Savage 93 bull loves those Hornady 30 gr vmax. It will put most out of 10 in 1" but a couple slide out most of the time! I have shot 1/2" with it a couple times. Thats all I need! I use it as a golf cart farm gun and when I am catfishing on the boat for all kinds of varmints. My favorite is the crows. It works wonders on them! Bobs and coyotes have bit the dust from it. Thats all I ask of it. I am not going to shoot the olympics any time soon!